Rant: Why do some people think that designers aren't worth a living salary?

[mteg24]

I know there is a lot of competition, and that the job market isn't the greatest, but why do some employers think that they don't have to pay their designers enough to live off??

My question: have any of you ever switched from full time to freelance and was the compensation better? Any advice for the situation where your full-time job isn't paying you enough to live on? I have a lot of friends who are in this situation, designers mostly. One was offered 9$ an hour in one interview, where she said "I'm sorry, I can't live on that" and the interviewer said "I wouldn't reach too high."

[Chung Dha]

What , 9 dollar. Working in the greenhouse or farm even earn much more. I think even garbageman earn more than that.

I got a friend going from working for working from a company to a freelance job. When he left he got a very expensive professional canon camera though. But he was paid very good for making folders and designs.

But I think its depends abit where you live and wich company.

[apresico]

They don't know the worth of the job and therefore you really need to explain what is really involved in your work. If you break things down for people it really makes them see the reason for your price. Also, you have to be assertive with them and show that they need you as much as you need them.

With good advertising and of course good talent, freelancing can be very rewarding because you get to set your prices and you get a fair share. I recommended this book in another thread Graphic artists pricing and eithical guide
Its pretty good for figuring out about how much things go for and it also has contract examples.

[render]

apresico is exactly right. see, besides freelance design, i do home remodel. and design is the same in terms of bids and pricing. you really have to do breakdowns of the work you do in order to have a client really understand how much work your really doing. we make it look easy because thats what we do. it comes natural after time. so thats why it looks like its not worth it to the client. breakdowns of all the work is what opens their eyes. oh, and when your freelancing, make sure you have something else to fall back on. and yes, i think unless your workng for a huge firm, freelance is the way to go. be sure to advertise. take care.
- eric

[apresico]

You need to think of design the same as the cell phone, ISP, and other services think. A cell phone company breaks down what each charge is for (everyone knows this from a bill) and explain why it is that way. Usually, there is a sales rep in a business to do this, but if you are doing it on your own you have to do all the break downs, and the best thing is, it doesn't involve annoying math or anything, just the basics.

[jesse101]

I work as a full time designer and get paid a decent rate. I think a lot has to do with the company...if its a small and growing company, you may not be offered as much as a company with a full art department. Just depends.

However, another reason may be that they see our job as something "fun" and "easy" and we should not be paid that much because in there mind they think we have ideas gallor and we create them in a flash. WHICH IS NOT THE CASE...A lot of work goes into what we do, but they just dont understand the design process. All they see is the final outcome.

[John Manning]

I'd wager it depends more on the job description than anything else.

I just left a job at a small design/web company. The jobs were usually fairly simple, and the position didn't require much more than basic software knowledge and basic design sense. In this case, I think low salary was justified.

A job at a bigger firm that requires more creativity, adaptability, software knowledge, artistic ability, marketing knowledge, etc. would certainly justify a higher salary.

That said, there are always benefits aside from money. A small gig can be great experience, and freelancing provides a great deal of freedom and flexibility, so long as you can still pay the bills.

[oxygen]

To make it really short, the problem with this profession is this:

Design is visual and everybody (clients, managers even the laundry staff in a company) have eyes and they feel it as something they can reach, they can touch, they "know" it, they can easily tell if its good or bad.

When you go to the dentist and he says that you should follow this or that treatment, you can't argue with it because you don't really know about it. You just accept his professional opinion (or you go to another dentist).

Unfortunately this doesn't work for a designer. Sad but true. Most of the times I have fights with my boss is because he thinks he knows how a graphic is created and he always "assumes"... assumption upon another assumption and life goes on

[Chung Dha]

I agree with that and also cause everybody thinks they can design things themselves. Really hurt to see the level of students that think they can design things while they are really bad. I know they need to learn but even the whole world see the logo is ugly they think its looks good.

Really hurts to see the reasons they apply to study design. All say: Yeah, I though its funny and didn't knew what to study. And design is easy to learn.

Over 75% are gamers who want to design games.
I think less then 5% are serious designer who applies to design schools. The rest are people who think design its easy to learn.

[jesse101]

True, a lot of students go into the program thinking its hip and cool and easy...But you still need talent and a good eye to design.

[tpuentes]

Another thing is you can charge X amount of money for a design but there are hundreds of starters who would do it for a lot less, just to add on to the portfolio. The client which most of the time is cheap will take his chaces with the not so great design because is cheaper and meets his demands (in some way).

As Oxygen says, most people think they can design, that is a natural talent that everyone have. I'd like to use the Kotex logo as an example
http://www.kotex.com/na/images/kotex_logo.gif
The brand name and a red dot, simple as hell, but no one came up with the idea for ages. once you see it, you say "I could have done that"... true. But don't forget there was a creative process behind that logo.
A great logo doesn't have to be complex, the simpler the better but the client thinks the simpler the cheaper.
Sorry but this is the reality, besides a great designer you need to be a great negotiator because if you don't sell your idea, any student (no offense, I've been there) can kick your behind.

[Arzmir]

I'm a simple hobbydesigner which do things for the fun of it so I have no experience on this part, but what I think is that a great deal of people ordering some design doesn't really know the importance of the design itself. Say for example the McDonalds logo, it's really really simple and everyone in the world remembers what it is if they see it. Simply put, branding.

I have a feeling that design customers doesn't have a clue of this and doesn't really care it seems. They don't realize that a really really good logo actually will be playing a role in marketing the product/firm and increase their income if it's done properly and thus doesn't see the value of a real designers work.

[Shamrox]

I think the main reason designers don't get paid what they're worth is because most employers and potential contractors think they can "do it themselves" for cheaper. Everyone with Photoshop nowadays thinks of themselves as a graphic designer. It's the same with photography. If you've got a digital camera, you're a photographer. EXCEPT NOT.

I worked for three years as a designer for a photography company, and I've worked at a newspaper as a graphic designer before, and I was paid crap at both places. I'm mostly freelance now, and I still get paid crap, but I have a say in what I create now, so that's a plus to the minus financially.