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XHTML???? (CrazyBat??)


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#1 simplistik

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 04:32 AM

Yea so I hear xhtml is gonna be the "new" standard in web dev. My question is what is so special about xhtml? Can anyone inform me of what the big "improvements" are over just regular html. I think CrazyBat could help answer this question. But I'm just curious what everyone else has heard or knows.

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#2 Neupix

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 04:52 AM

There is no real difference between it and HTML, basically all the same tags (with some new ones).

For a site to be completely XHTML standard, it needs to include only tags supported by XHTML. some older HTML tags are not supported - as they do not show up in all browsers. All your tags need to be closed well, and in order. So that means you couldn't have <b><u><i>text</u></b></i> as the closing tags are not in order. This includes the <p> tag, which when learning HTML I was always told that it did not have to be closed.

Anyways, I hope that is an accurate description. I have had to do some research on it in the past couple months, as a client asked me to create an XHTML compliant site - and I really didn't know how.

I would say its not necessary to bother with it unless you really need some XML functionality.
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#3 Crazy Bat

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 06:03 AM

Okay....here's my take on the XHTML standard and why I use it.

1. My take on XHTML.
Basically, XHTML is HTML 4.01 reformulated to parse as XML. By conforming to the recommeded W3C standards now, you are better preparing your data for past, present and future compatibility.

How you ask? Take this example.

a) With XML becoming more the standard for supplying the content in Content Management Systems, if your pages were marked up in the XHTML standards now, you are assured your content can be used reliably as your markup is, essentially, XML. Your markup can be used as XML in the future.

FYI: Now, there's a whole other matter as to how an XHTML page is currently being read by web browsers....but that's a whole other story. :rolleyes:

2. Why I use it.
In general, it's always good to follow any standards recommended by the W3C. Why? Well, the W3C is made up of over 350 companies. You might recognize some of the companies; Microsoft, Apple, Mozilla Foundation, Nokia, Macromedia. Basically, the movers and shakers of the people that bring you some of the user agents that view and edit markup. (Like IE, Mozilla, Firefox, Dreamweaver, etc.)

So, because the XHTML 1.0 is a recommeded standard back in 2000 and XHTML 1.1 in 2001 by the W3C, I don't consider it to 'become the new standard', I consider it a standard now.

Some other points (which I'll just summarize)
a) XHTML will get you better prepared for Accessibity design. It won't actually make your pages accessible friendly right off the bat, but it's sure a lot easier to make them accessible friendly.

b) Faster parsing of your page. No nested tables for the browser to render. The presentation of your page is no longer dictated by the markup document, but now by the CSS.

c) Smaller page size. On average, pages I have converted from a HTML 4.01 nested table layout to XHTML 1.0 or 1.1 are about 30 - 40% smaller in size. (An average based on my experiences.)


So, to conclude, I feel it's important to keep track of the trends of the movers-and-shakers who allow you to interact with your web content. It was this inital reason I started to use XHTML. As I used it more and researched the benefits, I began to see and experience the benefits of XHTML. Should you be switching now? Who am I to say? There's nothing wrong with keeping to HTML 4.01 Strict standards. You should definitely keep it in mind though for the reasons above...IMHO.

But, please don't take my word for it. :)
W3C XHTML 1.0 recommendations.
W3C XHTML 1.1 recommendations.
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#4 simplistik

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 08:54 PM

Ok... I'm pretty knowledgable about HTML, how hard is to learn XHTML? Much like everything I do and know I'm self taught, just curious if there is some massive learning curve.

Does XHTML parse the coding as a XML document or make it easier to parse the coding into a XML document?

I understand the need to keep up-to-date w/ the "movers-and-shakers" as you put it. Why not just go with Flash instead of XHTML?

www.beyondthepixel.com - a multimedia affair
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
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#5 Crazy Bat

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Posted 03 May 2004 - 11:57 PM

Ok... I'm pretty knowledgable about HTML, how hard is to learn XHTML? Much like everything I do and know I'm self taught, just curious if there is some massive learning curve.


Well, the toughest part I found was to resist the urge to not use tables. :)

Then, it's a matter of learning how the CSS works. I think I spent a bit of time on this part. There are some great places that I started with where I basically picked apart what was created and understanding it.

http://www.inknoise....ayoutomatic.php is great. Basically, build a page with the interface and have a look at how the <div>'s and <style> interact. Once you get a handle on how the 'frame' of a site could be built, then you can experiment with some of the more complex CSS elements.

Does XHTML parse the coding as a XML document or make it easier to parse the coding into a XML document?


No and yes.

No, It's the user agent you use that will determine what your document is parsed as. As soon as your document is sent to the user agent, the user agent will determine what your document is.

And yes, by following the XHTML standard, you are preparing your document for user agents that can properly handle the content type of your document. If a user agent can support the proper MIME type (ie: application/xhtml+xml vs. text/html), then it will make it so.

I understand the need to keep up-to-date w/ the "movers-and-shakers" as you put it. Why not just go with Flash instead of XHTML?


Hehehe...I don't want to be the judge and jury on Flash. Basically, I keep accessibilty in mind when I design. So, I've come to the conclusion that if I want to reach the most people possible, I'll create at least an XHTML version of a site. If time and money permits, a Flash version too. Nothing wrong with Flash by any means. It's just always good to keep an open mind :)
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#6 Shyflower

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 08:48 PM

xhtml is the vehicle that will allow designers to get all the style info out of our code. Once you get the hang of it, it's much easier to code a document when you have the style information either in the header or in an external style sheet.

Another great thing about the xhtml/css combo is that you can change the look of every page on your site simply by altering the style info in an external style sheet. That's a great plus for some one like me who is always updating and rearranging her site. If you do decide to do a total redesign, your code is easy to edit because you don't have to mess around with all the font, paragraph style and table information.

Xhtml also makes it a whole lot easier to understand the division box model and put your content into divisions rather than use tables.

Parsers have an easier time because they don't have to go through a lot of junk to find the code and I beleive the same can be said about search spiders.

Pages load faster because there is not near as much that has to load.

I'm glad the W3C came up with this. At first it was a PIA, but like I said, once you get the hang of it, it makes life behind a keyboard much easier.

#7 simplistik

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 12:29 AM

Well very cool guys... I'll have to dip into it. I'm in the process of learning AE so I'll dip into XHTML next.

Shyflower: CSS control regular HTML the same way it does XHTML, as it only serves as a style controler which is what it does w/ HTML too.

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#8 Crazy Bat

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 03:34 AM

Well very cool guys... I'll have to dip into it. I'm in the process of learning AE so I'll dip into XHTML next.

Shyflower: CSS control regular HTML the same way it does XHTML, as it only serves as a style controler which is what it does w/ HTML too.


Hey...no worries. If you have any questions when learning XHTML, feel free to ask.

BTW.....not to sound dumb or anything, but what's AE??? There's too many acronyms these days :)
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#9 Shyflower

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 03:50 AM

Well very cool guys... I'll have to dip into it. I'm in the process of learning AE so I'll dip into XHTML next.

Shyflower: CSS control regular HTML the same way it does XHTML, as it only serves as a style controler which is what it does w/ HTML too.


Okay, after taking a refresher course, I see you are right. But xhtml extends html beyond pc screen to print, mobile, and TV use... and it does all that because you can get all the style information out and still have readable, workable code. I only know that since I have been using it, I find it much easier to transfer my pages from the design board to the Internet.




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