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Michael Moore's Ferenhiet 9/11


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#1

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Posted 19 May 2004 - 11:48 PM

I have read an article in Russian newspaper Izvestia about this movie and the guy who shoot it. I saw this article just at the moment when I was dying to hear some other opinion's from Americans about the current US policy on foreign affairs. Looks like I've found a guy who tries to express opinions absolutely opposite from what one guy supported in the Gerorge W. Bush thread.

Allright, some quick search showes that this movie is: a documentary that will trace why the U.S. has become a target for hatred and terrorism. It will also depict alleged dealings between two generations of the Bush and bin Laden clans that led to George W. Bush and Osama bin Laden becoming mortal enemies.

This is quite a formal description. No emotions involved... Oh well, some more search shows that people can really get emotional because of this movie. One guy wrote that Moore is "sick in the head". I have come accross some praise as well.

Moore himself sais about the movie "When you see the movie you will see things you have never seen before, you will learn things you have never known before. Half the movie is about Iraq - we were able to get film crews embedded with American troops without them knowing that it was Michael Moore. They are totally fucked."

Disney tried to block the movie's release. Mel Gibson was told not to provide any funds for this movie. There are a lot of interesting things people say about it.

There's lots of stuff written about this movie both online and in the papers. But what I think would be the best thing to do, is to watch this movie and do your own conclusions. Well, the only problem is it is not avaliable in Russia (yet?). Have any of you guys had a chance to see it? What do you think about the movie and the guy?

#2 Neupix

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Posted 20 May 2004 - 12:29 AM

I have not had a chance to see it - as I don't think its being released in North America.

However, I have seen two of Moore's previous documentaries: "Roger & Me" and "Bowling For Columbine". Both of these films are great, and they both point out many flaws in the American system.

It should be noted that Michael Moore's films are incredibly biased. They only show one side of things, and are edited in a manner that makes certain individuals look bad. The facts can not be ignored though.

I do want to see this new film - as I have very strong opinions about 9/11 and Iraq myself.
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#3

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 08:35 PM

I have found this about Bowling for Columbine. It's an interesting thing that such a movie won the award for best documentary.
[quote name='http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html']
Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" won the Oscar for best documentary. Unfortunately, it is not a documentary, by the Academy's own definition.

The injustice here is not so much to the viewer, as to the independent producers of real documentaries. These struggle in a field which receives but a fraction of the recognition and financing of the "entertainment industry." They are protected by Academy rules limiting the documentary competition to nonfiction.

Bowling is fiction. It makes its points by deceiving and by misleading the viewer. Statements are made which are false. Moore leads the reader to draw inferences which he must have known were wrong. Indeed, even speeches shown on screen are heavily edited, so that sentences are assembled in the speaker's voice, but which were not sentences he uttered. Bowling uses deception as its primary tool of persuasion and effect.

A film which does this may be a commercial success. It may be entertaining. But it is not a documentary. One need only consult Rule 12 of the rules for the Academy Award: a documentary is a non-fictional movie.
[/quote]

#4 will

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 12:17 AM

Hi, Guys:

Resurepus a good way to take a look at this movies is through emule (emule-project.net). I download everything from there even Baraka that if you haven't seen it I recommend a lot (it doesn't have much to do with michael moore but it was worthy to mention it because once you see that movie you will see and understand things on another level)

On Michael Moore I saw Bowling for Colombine and read Stupid White Men and he has a pretty cool point. The fact is that for what I know in the rest of the world his opinion of an Empiralist USA is shared by many people (of course those that doesn't see all the time cnn :D). Here in a channel called infinito also I saw a documentary about the bush family that if the north americans didn't saw it they should because for the things it shows a madman is ruling the most dangerous country in the world.

I tried to attach the book but couldn't. Let me know if you want me to send it to your email or if you want you can check for Audiobooks in the emule net. Also is a screener of the Farenheit 9/11 taken from Cannes. I didn't saw it yet. I tell you when I do.

Take care,
Will
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#5

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 06:23 AM

Will thank you very much for your thoughts!

Unfortunately emule wouldn't be the best thing for me. I am on a dial up connection which is quite slow here in Russia.

However I will try to find a way to read Stupid White Men and see Barka. Please, keep us informed on interesting books and movies you come accross.

#6 mbleigh

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 06:50 AM

I think that it's unfortunate that no matter how much I might agree with his message, Michael Moore almost makes me hate my own point of view. His inaccurate methods of proving his point coupled with his arrogant and childish attempts to "enact change" make me sick, even when he's fighting for a cause in which I believe.

Case in point:
He claims that gun violence can't be race related because "Canada has significantly less gun violence and they are 18% minorities." Of course, anyone who takes more than a casual listen to this statement realizes that America has more than double the amount of minorities of Canada. I do not think that gun violence is caused by race, but by him inaccurately portraying facts to attempt to make the point the only thing he is doing is hurting those who are trying to draw legitimate conclusions from real data.

Michael Moore's "documentaries" should be taken with an enormous grain of salt. I personally have a difficult time not believing what I see, so the first run-through of "Bowling" I was totally on his side. However, when you take a closer look, you realize that just because the rhetoric sounds nice and you agree with it doesn't make it grounded in reality.

#7 will

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 07:18 AM

He claims that gun violence can't be race related because "Canada has significantly less gun violence and they are 18% minorities." Of course, anyone who takes more than a casual listen to this statement realizes that America has more than double the amount of minorities of Canada.

Personally I think that if this is the statement that worried you maybe you have to take a deep view at what you are saying.

The conclusion on the video is hard and contundent and is not centered there. I believe that everybody outside US sees that the main factor developing violence is the paranoid media management US has and the fear this inspires in its citizens.

And when you live in a state of fear, violence is at the doorstep, and the first excuse is always the difference between you and the neightbors: color, language, intelect level, etc.

I consider this kind of society a danger to the rest of the societies because when the citizens feel they are in danger they let their governments act freely and by doing so they are responsible for the results in some level. Of course there is danger outside US, as there is danger outside your house, or when you cross an avenue or when you dream outside the boundaries of a system built to oppress psicologically it's own citizens.

Try to take a peek at "Big Brother" from Orwell or Brazil from Terry Gilliam and you will understand the results of the psicologic oppression, the killing of the self aware, the absence of dreams and visions... Till there is only fear and finally... slavery.

Is this kind of society a society worth living for? I don't think so.

We are artists so this will never be a point of discussion. Fear won't lead to freedom... only to violence.

:D Peace :D
Will
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#8 mbleigh

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 08:41 PM

I was giving that as an example, there are many more that could be found if I were to watch the movie again. And like I said, I agree with the message he's trying to get out, I just have severe issues with the methods with which he tries to make his point, because lying and deceiving never end up winning the battle.

#9 Derek

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 10:09 AM

I watched a documentary that was filmed by two brothers, they were originally following around a Proby (sp?), or, a new Fire Fighter.




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