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Election


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#1 Imagenesis

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 12:51 AM

Another four years of economic standstill and waste of lives in Iraq...Bush has been reelected.... :( :mad:

Not that I think much of Kerry...But in comparison...

#2 belladonna

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 12:07 AM

Im not from the USA, but Im with you on that aE-COma :( .... when I saw it I coudn´t believe it.
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#3 will

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 12:10 AM

I am so sorry for you that have to live it, and for the rest of the world that have to suffer it. Dark times the ones we are living in when an ignorant that is destroying it's own country is reelected by the very people he is sending to die on unfair causes. Blood Money I read somewhere. :(
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#4 illumina

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 02:32 PM

Either way there would have been wasted lives in Iraq, Kerry had repeatedly said he had no plans on pulling out of Iraq, I believe he even said he planned on being there for the four years he would be in office, although I'm not 100% sure on that last bit.

I personally was rooting for Nader, but apparently he didn't have enough money to impress the people.

I'm new to American politics, as I'm immigrating to America, took me a year to understand why the peoples votes mattered if the electoral votes were the ones that decided who took control. :/

#5 will

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 02:51 PM

It's unbelievable that so many people is so much ignorant of what their governement do. I do not believe that they only get informed through CNN. If the news here are different than there man, god saves the little america and the Big America when another war is decided in a dark room of the pentagon by the vote of the fellow citizens. A shadow is spreading around the world, let's hope that the news, the information, the artist community, the schollars are all wrong about the fate of the world in the next 4 years. I definitely wish you the BEST of Lucks with all my heart for today is not a very good day to cross the border of mexico or canada. :(
Will
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#6 vidiotscreative

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 03:11 PM

People come here for a reason; the opportunities are endless here and the freedom which everyone has here is something everyone seems to forget.

No matter what your political stance, it would be more productive for anti-Bush people to speak up and offer changes or rationale behind the decisions they feel he should/should not be making. Michael Moore for example has been so out spoken, yet has he offered up any viable solutions to the problems he has so many issues with?

Secondly, would ANY of his movies been released, let alone exposed to the massive backing they received if he in fact lived in country other than the US? I highly doubt it we would even know who Michael Moore was/is.

Everyone has differing opinions; it is simply a matter of how active YOU are willing to become when you disagree with the political decisions that have in fact been made by the majority of the people in this nation. It would have been one thing, had he simply won the White House, but the Republican party as a whole took over control of more seats in the House AND the Senate. That statement is clear as day to me.

Had the candidate I voted for not won, I know I would not be talking about moving to another country; my job would not exist elsewhere...and the ability to do what I do every day would certainly not be as clear as it is within the borders of THIS country. I would be making suggestions, and become active in my community (as I did while Bill Clinton was in office for 8 years).

You can feel sorry for yourself; or do something about it.
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#7 will

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 07:41 PM

It was the greek who said "the countries have the government they deserve" but it's a new modification of that phrase that calls "the countries have the government they most look alike". It works here, there and everywhere. It's in the will of the people that a country or a world is being shape. If a country goes to war is because 1 of 2 reasons: 1) the people is supporting that war, 2) they don't care what their government do. For me the second is the worst sin as it is ignorance the guide for that people and the suffering of others mean very little to the ignorant. Every time a war explodes around the planet the only casualties mentioned are that from the ones that own the news, no tears for the uninformed. Nobody asks why or if there is another way (at least not truly). The first thing an ignorant do when is bothered by a mosquito is to instantly hit him with the weight of the hand forgetting that a mosquito is a living creature that is doing his best to survive the day.

Presidents come and go as tyrants come and go. The important thing is that the people under the command of the president or tyrant is better in spirit when the troubling times passes. Because if the people doesn't learn they will repeat the same mistakes all the time. And chances are not as many as we think. The pollution in the world, the species being eradicated from the face of the planet by human hands, the waters being contaminated by the filth of the masses, the kids being controlled by the will of crazy idealists that think patriotism or belief is worth the sacrifice of a few thousands, all this things constantly repeating from one time to the other on different flags (sometimes) and yet the masses keep sleeping a sweet dream in the confusion of the ignorant voice of their leaders, this is why things have to change, because the world is running out of places to blow out, of water to drink safely, of air to breethe and nobody wants to settle the example.

Sorry man, but the reason why I think Bush and his acollites aren't the right tyrants for you country is because from the very moment he sat in the white house all those priorities came to 10th place and war became the only way to do business with the world. Freedom is out there in the rest of the world but cannot exist if all the time the stronger country puts a boot in the face of the weaker ones.

I wish you and of your fellow citizens best wishes in their future choices as well as I wish my own people the same every day. I hope that things are changing because I am an artist and dreams is all we have to build our painting of the future :D

Peace,
Will
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#8 vidiotscreative

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 07:52 PM

...I couldn't follow most of your post, so I am not really sure what you were trying to say to be honest.

I am thinking there is some kind of language barrier thing going on...

*confused*
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#9 will

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:04 PM

No problem :D I am just saying you are right. It's on the people hands the tools to shape their future.
Will
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#10 illumina

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:17 PM

I'd like to add one thing I've been trying to tell people since they all started changing their minds about this war.

When america was attacked on 9/11, first there was shock, grief, then anger. When the anger surfaced, president bush declared a war, not on afghanistan, or any independant nation, he declared it on terrorists in general. He outlined his plans to attack Iraq, he was given false information on their weapons capabilities, and he passed this information on to the people, and the UN. Whoever was responsible for getting this information needs their position reviewed, they are to blame.

When america first went into iraq, a huge portion of the country agreed with this, as did a huge portion of england (my native country). We were all under the impression that Saddam was a threat, based on these WMD reports president bush had been given. Since then, countless people have changed their mind, calling the war wrong, a disgrace, etc. And that is fine, people can change their minds if they so wish, I have nothing against that.

But what astonishes me is the fact that nobody seems to realise that the president does not have the luxury of just quitting, and changing his mind. He has immense responsibilities I doubt many of us could imagine having. He has to see it through, no matter what, he started something, he can't be Average Joe and change his mind when the going gets tough. He started the war in Iraq with the backing of his people and the congress, everyone was angry, everyone wanted 9/11 to never happen again, and because of some moron who goes out, studies iraq, and brings back false reports, everyone thought saddam could be a threat, so agreed, and encouraged it. Bush started out with the support of many people. You may not like him, but you should remember that he doesnt have the luxury of changing his mind, he has to continue, he has no choice, he can't just leave iraq the way it is and wash his hands of it. The people there need protection, and the country needs to be rebuilt, and hopefully that will be done soon.

He may have acted rashly, and just jumped in, with blind faith on those reports, that may have been the wrong decision, but it should be remembered that many people reacted the way he did too, the only difference between them and bush is they have the right and the ability to say "I changed my mind". He doesn't.

#11 vidiotscreative

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:40 PM

In addition to those remarks; Americans in general have VERY short memories. That same declaration about going after terrorist and nations who harbor them (Iraq was and still IS one of those countries) was supported by virtually every person here in the US. Everyone was calling out for blood in relatiation for 9-11, and was behind every decision Bush made; his presidential rating was at some of the highest levels in the history of the Presidency....a few years go by, and suddenly we once again are going through what I call 'Pearl Habor Syndrome'

If you forget history, it will inevitably repeat itself. When Pearl Harbor happened, it brought a nation who wanted nothing to do with WWII (cause it did not personally effect us); that was until that horrible day in history, where the whole world changed...and the United States then proceeded to help rid the world of one of the worst people in the history of warfare. Sound familiar?

The ways in which both these men (hitler and Hussein) gained power over their people, and the attempts to bring the region to its knees.

As much as people might dislike GW, he is standing by what he said he would...and will not waver because the polls tell him he should, or because of pressure from foreign powers. This is no longer a popularity contest, it is about making the world a safer place for the future generations; and personally, I feel much more comfortable with GW in office. A man who sticks to his guns; that is the kind of person I want running the country I live in; not someone who will give in to outside pressure; or take polls on how to react to video threats from Osama Bin Laden.
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#12 illumina

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:48 PM

Personally I would have rather trusted the country to Nader. Bush would be my second choice, Kerry my last.

My reason for this is I agree with many of Naders plans, I think the government does need reforming, I think there should be a universal health care system available to everyone. I'd choose Bush second because while he may be an idiot when it comes to taxing the middle class, I know this devil, and you know what they say, better the devil you know than the one you dont. Kerry would be my absolute last choice because his plans were so unrealistic they sent me into fits of laughter whenever I read/heard about them. Theres not a chance would he be able to implement all the changes and upgrades to just about every sector the government oversee's AND cut taxes. Taxes from the rich alone wouldnt cover the cost of his plans.

What I'm really hoping is next election there will be someone more like tony blair running for president. While blair may suckup, he has done wonders with England IMO, so fingers crossed, I'm hoping for someone like him next time.

#13 vidiotscreative

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:51 PM

Iraq had no relationship with terrorists or nukes, I relaize a predident has great responiblilty and all that, it's just I think that previoius presidents in my opinion did a better job at handling it...In COMPARISON, I think Bush isnt the right person for the job...

OHH, and about Bush, not that it REAlly matters but wouldnt u rather trust the country to a person who has a long-standing "good" past ie John Kerry, rather then someone who was a recovering alcoholic AT AGE 42???


Iraq had no relationship with terrorists? You know the guy who is behind the beheadings of US, British and other foreign nationals within Iraq? You know the guy who is PURPOSELY killing Iraqi civilians? Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was in Iraq before the war began. He was a KNOWN Jordanian terrorist with his own organization; you mean to tell me a man as fanatical as Saddam Hussein, who controlled his borders tighter than a can of soup, a man who killed people who were outsiders...simply for being outsiders, didn't know that he was there and receiving medical treatment in Bagdhad?

In addition to this, Saddam Hussein himself wrote personal checks to the families of martyrs in Palestine, for killing Israelis by way of suicide bombings? If that is not terrorism, then I don't know what is.

As for Nukes, the IAEA had stamps on 370 tons of ammunition (the same stuff that a good bit has gone missing) because it was designed to detonate nuclear weapons...and the commission stated that Hussein was using his oil-for-food program (which was supposed to feed his people) to leverage other countries to lifting sanctions to begin re-establishing his weapons programs. Would you be willing to wait and see? I sure wouldn't.

Also, what does being a former alcoholic have to do with anything? Do you know how long ago that was? Thats like saying that when I am in my 50's and 60's that you are going to judge me based on things I did 20, 25, 30 years before. If you are going to live your life judging people by mistakes they have made in life, then I truly feel bad for your family and friends.
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#14 illumina

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:53 PM

THATS EXACTLY MY point!!! He is basically taking no action against those threats from Osama Bin Laden..Instead he went into a war that was pointless, That just caused a more tense atmospere in Iraq, terrorists swam to Fellujah and such cities just attack the US troops...I don't see what GW accomplished!!!?? Except waste 83 billion dollars on taking a dictator who had no weps or relationship to our enemies AND who potentially AT SOME POITN could have BEcome a threat!!!

And if ou say Saddam was harboring terrorists, So was Saudi Arabia, many more then Iraq....But because of relationships...


He didnt go into the war, the whole nation did. The majority agreed with it. Congress advised him on it and backed him up.

I wont say Saddam was harbouring terrorists, but I will say he was a terrorist himself. For decades he had terrorised his own people, and the people in the countries surrounding him.

I'm glad he was taken out, but I'm sorry for all of the lives lost and the pain endured in order to take him down.

#15 vidiotscreative

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:55 PM

Unfortunetly, in Pearl Harbor we went after the pople who attacked us, not a country who had no relationship to them....IE IRAQ!!!! It's not we attacked Greenland or somehting in WW2!!!


Also, we didn't JUST attack Japan, did we? If I remember correctly, we launched a full scale war on everyone who we thought had a tie to that specific event and the people were trying to ethnically control the world.

First off; can you check your posts before you post them? It is pretty hard to take something seriously or even attempt to make it through your posts when every other word is spelled incorrectly, is missing words, or just plain makes no sense.

Secondly; Do YOU know if Iraq did or didn't have any ties to 9-11? No one can 100% say they did or didn't, so that is a fine line you are treading on that one.
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#16 vidiotscreative

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:57 PM

OHH, and another thing...You know the vaccine shortage? well, it's going to cause 5000 to 10000 more people dying then a regular flu season..Thats more then 9/11, This is against an argument that "terrorists can strike again" well, maybe we should be concentrating on domestic issues like the flu instead of terorists since the flu shortage will kill as many people as 9/11,


Back that one up with some evidence please...cause I don't buy those numbers for one second.
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#17 illumina

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:58 PM

you cant compare a serial killer to a former alcoholic.. thats like comparing bread and cheese :/

#18 will

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 09:01 PM

Just a foreign comment. There is no country in the world that can oppose US guys, be serious. US has the power to nuke us all, to destroy this entire planet and the button is in the hands of your government. Do you truly believe anybody in the world will declare a war to US ? Come on, nobody is that crazy. Every country that has challenge US is suffering nowadays of international voicots, hunger, a destroyed economy just to think different of the capitalism. That freedom you say US have was at the prize of a lot of indian nations, plus the enslavery of black people as well as use of latinos as what we call here "carne de cañon" of every battle us had in the past and will have in the future. The power of the North American economy is based on always stop every nation that is developing, believe me I know what I am talking about. It always helps to have a corrut governement in the country we are trying to bribe of course, and I am afraid politics and corrupcy are in the same bag nowadays.

An important tip for the future: "Always judge a situation like if you were under the skin of the other part", this way you will understand why the government of USA is not seen well in the world. And don't get confused as they do. Outside US nobody hates north americans, they hate the governement that oppress them and threatens with war every posibility they have.

Now we (as the third world) know that if US wants our resources they won't ask for it but they will take it by force. As part of the third world I understand the rules are set by the ones that own the game. And this board my friends has a Made in USA right in the back of it.

Try to open your minds because I don't thing this is a matter of republicans and democrats but the fact that USA as a republic (not a democracy) only protects the republic with disregard of where did it's wealth come from and who suffered outsite US in the process.
Will
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#19 vidiotscreative

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 09:02 PM

Alright well, lets give the presidentcy to a drug attic and a serial killer...If we shouldnt judge people by there pasts then why have prisons...People in prison aren't doing anything bad at the monet there in prison...Your punishing them for things they did previously..And besides it's not really a big deal...I'd rather not give someone so much control with that kind of mind set...

It was in the 9/11 report I think or some other, report not sure...But I'm sure it was clearly stated by an expert...Either way sorry about the spelling error etc...Just typing relly fast either way...The president Bush is in office either way and I doubt u can convince me against what I belvie...So no point in argueing I have to go to the gym now...Bye!!!


Give me a break; I can't even discuss this with you. Your thought process is completely unobjective and you are making statements which make me feel like you are simply spewing propaganda which is based on no concrete facts whatsoever.

My uncle happens to be a former alcoholic and hasn't touched the stuff in like 20 years. If someone would hold that against him now; then shame on them.

A serial killer or drug addict (I assume you meant addict)? Give me a break. Go educate yourself a bit more, and when you are ready to discuss this further, I will be all ears.

Have fun at the gym.
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#20 vidiotscreative

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 09:04 PM

http://www.changefor.../node/view/1577

evidence...

just exagerating...Im talking about the mind set of the person...I actually wasn't making such a big deal out of it...

quite a heated argument...


A political action source; nice objective information there...



:rolleyes:
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