Why do you participate in design contests?

I found out about this site awhile back through an email I received. I finally decided to post about this because I got another email today from this forum about it being updated or something.

Frankly I'm quite disappointed. This type of competition (and its structure) is unethical and ultimately unfair to the graphic design community.

The competitions expect designers to invest time and resources purely on speculation. Designing on Spec is not the norm, nor is it an accepted practice in the graphic design industry.

Graphic designers are a valuable part of the communications, branding and marketing mix, trained in solving business communication problems. An organizations design is its face before the public, the visual expression of its culture, mission and scope. Taking away the interaction between Client and Designer by creating a competition significantly reduces the chances of finding suitable design. It may be "pretty", but without the research behind it, it's bound to be off the target. So, how do you feel justified in minimizing the designer's contribution?

"Historically, contests or competitions requiring the submission of new, original work have attracted the fewest number of entries from professional artists." - Graphic Artists Guild's Suggested Guidelines for Art Competitions and Contests http://www.gag.org/r...ompet_rules.php

"Creative competitions prevent the intimate collaboration necessary for great solutions. Competition results that are less effective than work produced in a focused, collaborative professional relationship. In a pitch, the goal is to get the job. In a relationship, the goal is to help the client win. Competitions tend to produce the lowest-common-denominator kinds of solutions." - Promax http://www.promax.or...opetrends02.pdf

Also check out this AIGA article http://www.aiga.org/...?CategoryID=105

Alright,

Design Contest is like a hobby to everyone(well at least to me)

It's all about fun, practice, experience and such..

I mean if it werent for DC, I would suck at Designing...

Originally posted by Totalmajor
Alright,

Design Contest is like a hobby to everyone(well at least to me)

It's all about fun, practice, experience and such..

I mean if it werent for DC, I would suck at Designing...

Judging from the work on the website linked in your signature I can honestly say that you do suck at designing. You do seem to have a basic understanding of photoshop but I don't think you have a clue what design is.

I suppose you have no trouble sleeping at night knowing your hobby is putting people out of work.

http://www.graphicpu.../wormhole.shtml

Jeeze, you are bitter Cleric. The terms of the contest are outlined upfront, and entry is voluntary. Why get your blood up over this? If those holding the contest are happy with the results, and those taking part in the contest are willing to make the effort and spend the tiime, why is it such a big deal with you. No one is twisting your arm to come here.

You really don't get it do you?

I agree with phacker. If you (Cleric) are as good as you say, why don't you just whip out a couple quick entries and make some cold hard cash? If the client doesn't need the product to fit their vision EXACTLY, then it shouldn't take you much time. Lets see if you have the skills to back yourself up...

You don't get it either do you?

I have participated in one contest. I attribute it to the fact that I was still naive. I did win, and I have a shiny DVD/VCR in my living room because of it. It was for a non profit organization so I don't feel as bad.

The fact is I don't need to participate in contests to make money. Why would I participate in a contest where I spend time developing a logo (for example) and then IF I happen to win I get 100 dollars when I can work with a client where I know I will get paid and make 400-2000 dollars?

If you really must judge what I say based on my work rather than my arguments (which is illogical) then you can view it here.

http://www.carbonfour.com/

Edit: **No point arguing.**

Basically what I mean is that I would do competitions like these for free (well, almost free) because it is fun, and I get stuff to add to my portfolio (even if I don't win). Right now, there is no chance that I could catch myself a real client that pays with a contract. My work sucks too much. Competitions let me improve my skills, and give me the chance to win a small sum of money. The client is happy, I'm happy, I don't see where you find a problem.

karl472001 if you would actually spend your time studying design rather than degrading the industry you could make that much.

By the way, your work in your portfolio isn't that great.

If you are going to make statements like these I can only assume you are able to back them up with intellectual reasons when challenged on them. So I am challenging you on it, please explain.

rtbenson if you are really serious you could always find non profit groups in your area and offer to do design work for them for free. This will help build your portfolio and give you real expenience with a client designer relationship. Not to mention give you pieces for your portfolio.

Cleric,
I am not a designer, I am a programmer and server administrator.
When I started freelancing, I had hard times finding customers and was ready to work virtually for a penny. Well, not exactly, but you get the point.
I would be willing to participate in a contest if there was one for programming/server admin work but there were none in my area of skills. I am sure there were freelancers back then as well who were making a lot of money with their skills. Well, i wasn't so skilled as they were and I didn't have any business relations and aquaintainces. I really couldn't find much work.

Well, today the situation is different, I can get all the work I want and much more on top of my head, which I can't even handle. And I get paid more than I was back then too.
Now, my point is. There are people with a small budget, average budget, big budget. There are people who are willing to work for one of these budgets. If they can do it, what? Do they have to stop and starve? Do they have to tell their potential clients that they are not cheap and leave those with nothing and die from hunger? That's not going to happen. You can talk as much as you want about minimal wage and stuff. Well, guess what, there are 1 billion Indians who will work for much less that what you normally make. They don't make such crappy designs by the way and they charge much less. Internet is an open space, anyone can participate in whatever they want, and if the customer is satisfied with the results, that's all that matters really. Noone's gonna pay more if that's all they can spend to get such and such. It's competition man, it's just really funny this has to be explained to you.

You can keep saying as long as you want "You don't get it" and stuff. Nothing's gonna change, trust me. There are just too many hungry people in the world. If you know a way to feed all these people, go for it, otherwise you have to live with it and competition is a natural thing, just like in other industries, design is no exception here.

Hey, I entered a couple competitions last year, and ended up $10,000.00+ richer for it. I spent a lot of time working on entries that didn't get anywhere. But because I put the time and thought in and the competition was valid, I made some money. Trying to scramble for work in the rural area where I live is useless. Everyone has someone on staff that does their web work with "Frontpage". Trying to argue with them is useless. They don't have any concept about the web or graphics. They just want a page up.

Cleric you're just a pathetic loser who thinks he's the best.
'Your' Portfolio isn't that great...
I doubt that's even your portfolio. Designers arent stuck up and go around saying Theyre the best.. apparently you're not because of your attitude. Why dont you just leave Design contest and take your incongruous opinions and shove it.
shove it.

Period Leave. We don't like deficient people surfing our site and rating our stuff. WE actually help each other out in asense.

Someone wins a contest we all go..
NICE JOB!

Awesome!

GOOD WORK!

Not.. I COULD OF DONE BETTER THAN THAT.. HAHA YOU SUCK

NO, we dont do that.. go find some other community you can haunt with your rubbish... apparently WE DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK. YOU ARENT THE CUSTOMER. RIGHT NOW IM DESIGNING A WEBSITE FOR A VERY!! GOOD DEAL AND THE COSTUMER LOVES IT.

Thanks,
TM

well, I guess I'm different, I do like the things I see in your portfolio, nice clean and well tought threw... I do dislike the ewag logo tough due to the noisy grey part of it in the middle... but well, overall its looking good to me ..

for total major - your even worse in additude then cleric here, even tough you wont admit it... at least he did use arguments here ...

for the topic discussed here .. I didnt really think of this before (well, I havent really participated in a contest either ..only the scorpion thingy now) but the more I hear about it, the more it makes sense that this isn't too good a thing, lower the prices now is lower prices when I'm done with college, and it could be that that wont work out nice, even if that wont be 'hitting' me then, I can understand that the designers that do this for a living get pissed of with low prices as this ... For building portfolio, well, there's other ways to do that too I suppose...

It is always the same story.

Of course the prizes in the contest are low but also the submitted works are not professional.
I don't believe that this could lower the prices for a professional work or reduce the possibilities of job for a professionist.

A real designer could ask up to 20000$ for a logo, due to all the research behind its realization, and of course doesn't make a logo for less than 500$.
OK, but there is also people that can not spend so much for a logo and this site can help them. In any case they won't be a client for a professionist.

Why should I not help people that has no money but would like a nice website.

To be honest, in Italy there are also websites where we make logos for free, without problems, and logo are made by the same professinists that realize logos for the big factories.

phpdeveloper I am all for competition, its what drives the world economy. However I believe that the competition phase between designers and clients should involve the client looking at each designers work and getting a bid from that client. Then they should choose 1 designer and work with them under contract. That way nobody is wasting their time doing work that they will not be paid for. I also understand not everyone can pay the $2000 price tag for a logo, and their must be adjustments based on your client. You can't expect a startup band to pay the same as say a large manufacturing company. You have to adjust your prices according to the client. Just because the customer is satisfied doesn't mean you did a good job, it is your job to educate the client about design.

phacker you made $10000 from 2 competitions? That is quite impressive. Living in a rural area is no excuse in my opinion, you can always pick up and move if you're serious (although I am not sure how old you really are). OR you have the internet which connects you to millions of possible clients whom you can work with. Granted a FedEx/email client relationship isn't the best but at least it’s a relationship.

Totalmajor on the contrary I will be the first to admit that I am not the best. I have much to learn. Also your comment was a fallacy (Ad Hominem - Abusive) which I am sure any intelligent person will see right though. That is my portfolio, I don't care if you believe it or not. I don't see anywhere that I stated I was the best. You keep coming back to this but where is the basis for these claims? Designers should not be stuck up, I don't think I am (although I admittedly have a healthy ego which I believe all designers should have). I have read all of your arguments and am responding to each of them in turn, where as you have attacked me and denounced all of my ideas as false and you have the audacity to call me stuck up? I will leave design contests when I am done (or perhaps banned).

You don't like "deficient people surfing your site"? Are you serious? Are you a designer? A designer should be open to new ideas and new challenges!

I am all for helping my fellow designers as well, and it goes far beyond saying "NICE JOB!" etc... I help my designer friends brainstorm on a frequent basis. I send clients their direction when I have no time. I take on their clients when they have no time. I go to their homes and have dinner with their families. I loan them books, paper, and a myriad of other things. I critique their work in a brutal but fair manner that will actually help them improve. I let them use photography I have shot free of charge. They are always there to do the same for me as well. I have never told anyone "I COULD OF DONE BETTER THAN THAT.. HAHA YOU SUCK".

Then you reiterate that you don't care what I think and show just how close-minded you are. It’s not just what I think; I mean you don't even seem to care what the AIGA says about it. Why not call some local respectable design firms and ask them what they think about speculative work?

You don't seem to me to be a designer at all, you are a decorator. You make things look pretty but you are not solving any problems. Don't you see? That’s what design is! Its all about solving problems! I think this forum should change its title from design contest to decoration contest. Then I would have no issues because at least then you would be telling the truth about what goes on here.

ParanoiDinHELL thank you for your kind comments on my portfolio. The concept of the eWag CD was pure humor. It was done for a Photoshop/Illustrator/Quark class I was required to take last semester. I found the class to be dull and a waste of time so I did my best to make it fun. The person who is eWag is a good friend of mine and fellow designer Eric Wagliardo. It was probably the biggest photo manipulation project I ever undertook (http://www.carbonfou...god/photomanip/ flash presentations of the progress). For the logo I have to thank the adobe action exchange and the "bling bling ice" text action that someone submitted. I found it to be perfectly cheesy and used it.

I am glad that my post has at least gotten one person thinking about it. I too am hoping to be able to get a decent job when I get out of school. I have built my portfolio without doing contests, granted I work part time as a graphic designer and do freelance work from time to time. Some ideas for generating portfolio pieces are: 1. (I have already mentioned I believe) Find a non profit organization in your area and offer to do work for them for free. 2. Every time browse though your schools event page and pick out an event, for example a speaker on the issues of the war in Iraq on a college campus and then design a poster for it. You might even submit it to the organizers and maybe it will get used. 3. Get to know people in the local music scene, they are always in dire need of good design. Help them out and in turn you will be helping yourself out.

I am sure there are many other ways to pad your portfolio without doing speculative work. Good luck to you!

miao I refer to the comments I made to the honorable gentleman (phpdeveloper) some moments ago about the need to adjust prices based on the type of client. Nothing in your argument (to me) facilitates the necessity of doing speculative work.

well, I'm fully into non-profit work so that's no problem but its nice to get some cash flow too (not that I'm getting that, havent got a commercial style imo) so ...

for this topic, I guess it depends on ever single situation...sometimes its a way for the designer to gain experience and other times its the only way for a small company to get a logo ... I think there could be other ways for that tough ...

Cleric,
if people want to waste their time, so be it, why would you care?