Why do you participate in design contests?

I would disagree that this site and others like it are not doing harm to the industry even if it’s miniscule. This is the only organized design contest site I have ever seen, and I will admit that by itself is having very little impact on the industry. However there are sites that are having an impact on the industry, and it is because of the same mentality of the "designers" that I see here.

Websites like:
guru.com
elance.com
scriptlance.com

Etc...
On these sites clients post a project and the designers/programmers give a bid on how much they will do them for. These kids have come in and undercut the prices of actual designers. Most of them live at home with their parents and don't have to pay bills or put food on the table. It’s a game to them and they have no ethics about how to play it. They will come in and do a logo for $100 for client Y. Client Y will tell his buddy client X that he got a logo done for 100 bucks. Then client X naturally expects to get a logo done for $100 regardless of where he goes. Some here might say this is just good natured competition, but it’s not because there isn’t a level playing field and one of the teams doesn’t have any ethics. Granted the design work is sub par for that 100 dollars and it is highly likely the companies that uses these cheap sources will fail but it sets up in the mind of the public that design is cheap and anyone can do it.

It’s kind of like how Hollywood has made everyone think that photo manipulation is a joke. You see them all the time zooming in on photos or removing people flawlessly. I get people all the time who are dead serious and say stuff like "well can't you just take this gif file that has been saved with full compression 900 times and make it perfect again?" Or "you can take this person out of the photo and move this guy over here ok?" and it’s because of the movies. They don’t understand it takes hours of work to do these sorts of things, and in case of the gif file it’s not even possible.

There are always people who don’t have big budgets, but that doesn’t mean that they should have to settle for sub par design. You all seem to care very much about these kinds of people so why not help them out. Work with them one on one and give them something really great that will help their business. I can pretty much guarantee that if you help them make money they will keep coming back to you every time they need some design work. The type of design you guys do here is like a one night stand, when you should be making relationships with your clients.

Like I have said you guys, the "designers", are the ones who are victims in this situation. You are the ones being abused by clients. If you do things like this you’re not getting your feet wet in the industry you’re getting raped in a back ally.

I feel I am repeating myself some but that’s ok. Design is not just seeing who can make something prettier under guidelines, design is a process. It’s solving a creative problem. All I see going on here is decoration.

Adept perhaps you can answer this:
How speculative work is good for any industry.

how can you reach those low-budget people without this kind of sites ?

You need to get out there and pass around business cards. Get to know people, other designers in your area. Network with people, if you talk with someone for more than a minute they should walk away with your card. Remember graphic design is about communcation, so communicate.

If you're in the states there is the AIGA (I am not sure if there is a graphic design organization in the Netherlands) which is active in pretty much every major city (except Dallas). They have meetings where you can go and meet other designers. Make cold calls to potential clients. Don't ever be rude and tell them their design now sucks because they might have done it or their wife etc... You have to convince them that if they let you do it you can make them more money. Tell them you're a student and that you are willing to work cheaper than normal but still deliver solid results.

Just by paying attention to what’s going on around you and getting your name out there you can find these people and they can find you.

Like I have said do some free design work for local non profit groups or your buddy’s band. Anything is better than being abused by doing spec work.

Originally posted by TheAdept
I'm not sure that you are going to get a good answer to your question about how sites such as this actually help the design industry. I don't believe that it does.

What is that in response to?

Originally posted by Cleric
Adept perhaps you can answer this:
How speculative work is good for any industry.

It was in response to this. I thought I had made it clear in my first post that a good answer to this would likely not be forthcoming since I personally don't think that it is 'good' for the industry. I simply don't think it's quite as bad as you seem to think it is.

I think its all good.
Really dont think this forum hurts the "design community"
I think it helps .
you are being over dramatic, just go away if you dont like this site.
Its all fun and helps a few people out It has made me start doing logos again and I like that!

Lucidic come to the next DSVC meeting and we can discuss it in person. As well as ask some other industry professionals in person what they think.

http://www.dsvc.org

Originally posted by Cleric
On these sites clients post a project and the designers/programmers give a bid on how much they will do them for. These kids have come in and undercut the prices of actual designers. Most of them live at home with their parents and don't have to pay bills or put food on the table. It’s a game to them and they have no ethics about how to play it.

Welcome to the world of competition.

Hey,

I've not read every post here, and someone might have already said this but ...

Cleric, I respect your opinion, and I think you're being quite noble to stand up for what you believe, but, it is ultimately the clients and designers choice to use sites such as DC...so these sites are obvious good for them.

And, I don't think that you're going to change a large trend (Designing with contests) just by moaning at a few random people on here

Just my opinion

I've done web design work for about 4years now, and I've found that what clients want to pay nowadays is ludacris. At present I could never make it on the money I make from my freelance work. People just aren't willing to pay a decent wage anymore. I've also seen this with in the video industry too. Producers don't want to pay an editor what he's worth because he wants to keep his budget bottom line. If we don't accept these ludacris prices then they won't even consider asking for them. Set the bar for the industry. I for one would never do a project for a discounted rate unless I held some personal interest in it. Most of the contests on this site sicken me. 45-75$ for a website? That's ridiculous and I got paid more when I was first starting out. I'm with cleric in part that these sorts of sites do hurt the industry in a way. I'm reminded of the Rage against the machine song, settle for nothing. If we take these shit prices now, you can't expect to make a living later. It's a sad but true reality we have to live with and decide on.

I am sure the low prices sicken everyone on here...

Sure you get $100 for a web design, but that doesn’t mean you won't make more money off that client in the future (through other jobs for him or referrals)

I wonder how many contest winners actually ask for referrals?

Also I think the prices would be higher if the quality of designs were higher. There are some great designers on here, but some of the entries are awful. In fact on a few occasions I was embarrassed.

Basically I see contests as a way for designers to get clients. Others choose different ways. If you don’t have any money this is a nice way to start.

How much $$$ do design firms spend on getting clients?
How much $$$ do freelance designers spend?

It’s not like you can just sit back and wait for clients to come to you, contest are just another way to get clients…

I second JT here. I've been designing professionally since 2000 and I can say that a lot of the arguments for these contests are pure hogwash.

For example, all you need to get started is to harvest tutorials on design from Google and pick up a good design program, the GIMP (www.gimp.org) is just as good as Photoshop for the beginner and is FREE. As in $0.00

I haven't spent a cent getting clients. I rely on word of mouth and networking with my fellow designers (on places like AllMediaStudios) And I make enough to keep on going.

It’s not like you can just sit back and wait for clients to come to you, contest are just another way to get clients…

A variation on a popular adage:
If you have the skills, they will come.

Put up a good portfolio on your design site, pass out print designs at local design conventions - these are what people SHOULD be doing. Unfortunately people far too often are just too lazy to do the work required and look for an easy way to make cash. This is an increasing negative trend in our society, and this site caters to it.

I'm not nocking contests, but you've lost point of the point of a contest. The point of a contest is to see the myriad of possiblities available with a given design spec and then choose the best. It's not about who gets what client. I participate regularly in the PhotoshopCafe design contests - and the payout there for a good design is worth the time - and it's stuff that will improve the quality of your work, not simply get you more work or some small bragging right.

Let me put it this way, if the payout for a contest is $40 then I'll give you what that'd be worth, just a little more than an hour and a half of my time.

I'll summarize it from an article posted earlier. Since I know from conversation that nobody who read it decided to comment on it, the link is here: http://www.graphicpu.../wormhole.shtml

Designers, especially new designers recently out of school, must be shown the value of a structured pricing model. Designers must charge what they are worth. Working ten hours on a $100 logo is a paltry $10/hour. If you think that sounds like good money, you're better off working at the Gap.

Charge as a professional, not a hack. Get off Elance and ContractedWork and get real clients, because buyers on those sites routinely select the cheapest price anyway, and there will always be someone cheaper than you. Think like a lawyer. Bill like an accountant. Use your talent to live. Don't try to scrape out a living by dragging your talent through every scrappy $100 logo job.

Design is what we do. It's our business, our life, and at times, a reward unto itself. Talent should not be taken for granted, especially by ourselves.

Cleric said:

'Granted the design work is sub par for that 100 dollars and it is highly likely the companies that uses these cheap sources will fail '

Not always true, Cleric. I've seen some logos that were worth much more than the $100.00. But I do see your point. And you have the complete right to say it.

When I enter these contests, I consider it a learning experience. I look at the other people's logos, and learn from them. There's nothing wrong with that. I usually think the companies can't lose because they get so many possibilities for the $100.00, even if they don't like any, it was worth it to take the chance. And the designers don't really lose either.

But I think all contests should be guaranteed. I think a contest that is not guaranteed is not really a contest.

A hobby...and for the cash.

g it is all in good fun i guess to put it is very simple terms though i have to admit i havernt entered any competitions since i dont have a paypall account so im just assuming that people just do it for fun like a hobby and to perhaps get a couple of extra bucks on the side, beside why do u care so much, if u dont like the way that it is done here, since u disapprove why dont u just delete ur account and not come back lol

I love this site!

I have fun making the logos!

I understand what you all are saying though.

BUT if you think that a few forum sites will destroy our industry
you are WRONG

I could ask the next 1000 clients I get if they have heard of this type of site and I bet not ONE would have heard about it.

ALSO
I have had a person that saw my work on here and she never even started a contest she just emailed me and
sent me 1400.00 I got the check cashed today
all she wanted was a WEB logo and a 3 page businesscard site

AND! she wants some flash work for her other business venture!

I think I will have lots of work from her circle of peoples!


bravo! DesignContest! Bravo!

also a contest I won the other day was a FREE logo in the nonprofit area
BUT he hired me at ful rate to do a website with his new logo on it! BOOM!

later
Lu

first time posting and ill tell you i come to this website not for the money nor to criticize, but for inspiration. iam 15 and been designing since 13, not the best, but to me the effort and the improvement is what counts. truthfully id rather spectate the competitions than participate to see the creative works that stimulate my mind.
Just stating my thoughts
(¯`·.¸¸.->Dennis<-.¸¸.·´¯)

First of all, let me be the first to congratulate Lucidic on the work you've gained. As well, here's the price issue rising again: $1400 may seem like a lot of money to you, but it's a fairly standard price in the industry. Consider people who have to support a family and keep a roof above their heads. That said, I hope that you find success in your ventures in the future. Just keep yourself grounded and do it for the love of the craft rather than the money, and you can go anywhere.

Back to the topic:
I think that perhaps the solution to the problem as a whole is to forget the money for a second.

Many people here seem to be here either as hobbyists and as students, learning from the experience and from the others here. I'm all for this - I am both a design hobbyist and a constant student of design as I seek to improve upon myself and expand my horizons.

Perhaps instead of simply getting petty cash the rewards for the winner of the contest should get something that would better their work. Better computer computer hardware, Adobe and Macromedia software, and commercial PhotoShop filters are all examples of this. If there were rewards like this, both would benefit: the "client" or person you're doing it for would get the design (or logo or button or whatever it is you are making) and you get better tools to better your craft.

I'd be interested to hear what people think of that.

Luicidic thank you for sharing your example... others have told me similar examples. In the end this is what the site is really about...

Clients finding designers they like.