A suggestion for more productive Elite Designer vote

[scorpionagency]

I've noticed that all the Elite Designer votes are basically blind. This means that people can vote yes or no in secret, maybe even have a few accounts & vote for them self. I know that that's not the case all the time & that we would like to think everyone here is honest.

My suggestion is to make it a requirement that each vote (Yes or No) be required to have a thread post stating WHY they voted the way that they did. If a vote does not have a post explanation, it doesn't count.. This will accomplish several things, such as, but not limited to the following:

1.) Help track duplicate vote accounts
2.) Help keep voting honest
3.) Help an applicant understand how they can improve them self
4.) Help an applicant understand what they may have done wrong
5.) Help other members learn what they should to do to qualify
6.) Help other members understand the process better
7.) Help keep a level playing field so all members feel they have been treated fairly
8.) Help eliminate most the doubts of unfair votes
9.) Help the community grow in the right direction
10.) Help member retention & participation rates

I'm sure there are several other bonuses to having a required post with each voter, the above were just a few off the top of my head.

I can only hope that others can also see the long term benefits of this suggestion & how it can help the community as a whole. Just keep in mind that if people don't know what they are doing wrong, they can't begin the journey to better them self. As a community I would like to think that our joint goal is to help all members succeed.

[Coy]

Scorpion I understand your view point and the thinking behind it. But personally feel that for now it is fine. If someone wants to know why they had more No votes then yes (or visversa) then they can ask.
As for one person using multiple accounts they will be caught, have been caught and have been delt with in the correct manner.
I don't think it's necessary to have each member explain why they voted the way they did, but think it wouldn't hurt to show who's voted at least to the admin/mod's.

I'd say that most designers here don't have a problem with any new members. And what in most cases will get a NO vote (at least from me) is that they've come here and "padded" their post count with nothing more than dribble.. You see them come in here and post in just about every thread with nothing more than a "nice link" or "cool work" or "I agree".. But the ones who come in here and are determind to make the site what it is and better it with their participation will get yes votes with out even thinking twice about it. I could name some examples with current registered members and how they are participating within DC in a positive and those that are just here to try and jump into contests with no consideration towards DC. But doing so will just "date" this post and it's not necessary.

I'd like to hear what others have to say about this as well.

[scorpionagency]

@ Coy
I am also curious what others have to say about this topic, as I personally feel that it can be beneficial to everyone knowing why they got a yes or no & not left in the dark about it all. Helps people learn for future attempts.

Sure, people can ask why they got no votes, but I've seen a few of the announcement threads where nobody volunteered to answer them. So they were still left unknowing. Without knowing who even voted I would think that would make it more difficult on moderation, As you've pointed out that Mods/Admins can't see either.

Odd that this topic hasn't had more responses yet. (Shrugs)

[Coy]

I've actually answered people asking why they received a yes or no vote.

I choose to do so through PM's. since the voting may still be open and I don't want to influence a vote one way or another in most cases.

[sharie]

If I am asked I will tell them how I voted. I don't think there needs to be a change. If a designer can't handle a no vote then maybe they are not ready to get all the "no's" when it comes to creating the actual designs for clients or contest holders. It is a for sure thing you will get many no, or not what I'm looking for. I got some "no's" on mine, I just took as that person didn't care for a comment I made or I just didn't lend myself as positive to that person. You can't make everyone happy and you will bend a nose or two along the way.

I think not being able to see who or how someone voted makes it easier for more to vote. I would bet the number of votes would go down if people were ables to see who and how they voted.

If an applicant can't handle a no vote , then are they ready to become an Elite Designer?

[sevehn]

hmmmmmmmm ....

In my own view .... I think ::

-> The option for votes to remain anonymous is a MUST! The voter will be safe from pressures of questions, interrogations etc. and the voter will be FREE to choose as he/she pleases!

-> The option to give reason why the vote was made ... is not really needed. Voters who choose to explain their reasons for voting is most welcome to voiceOut ... and for those that choose not to - then that is just totally okay! Participants should not feel PRESSURED for the "vanity" of "voteCounts" ... if there is a question, just ask in a nice way ... and you will get feedback in a nice way too! -- but i dont think requiring reasons for a certain vote is needed at all -- just vote!

-> Now multiple id's to acquire votes, that one definitely is punishable by the almighty-unalienable-dinosaurs! (joke! - i know that didnt make sense really! LOL!) -- kidding aside, multiple user id's for same owner is not tolerable once caught!

--- And yes, i agree with Sharie, reality check ... there will always be a "No" in life .... hehehehe .... so ... if one cannot handle a "no" -- then is he/she really ready to be an ED? (elliteDesigner)


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[scorpionagency]

Thanks Coy, Sharie, & Sevehn, all three of your comments actually make good sense. I can definitely see where the anonymity of a voter would help inspire more votes & that if they were to be exposed, less would want to be associated with their "no" vote worrying that it may carry negative repercussions & animosity from the one in whom they were voting on. I think that's actually something that we may have already seen...

It's great to hear both sides like this as it opens the doors for so many other possibilities. So far it seems that the majority (going by this thread) are opposed to open votes. And In a democratic system, the majority rules in order to help shape the future of a community.

It would still be helpful I think for moderators & admins to at least see who's voting though. That would allow the matching to profiles so that IP addresses can be checked. Maybe a great place to meet in the middle would be for that ability to make it on the list for feature development & security considerations.

I think the best thing I like about this community is that it actually has members / designers that reach out to each other & post well thought out replies. To me, no matter how much ones belief system is different, good communication amongst members is the key to great production.

[HWorks]

As stated before, I agree with scorpionagency. I have followed several votings and I saw many no's I didn't really understand. As for people writing only a short line, well, maybe there was not that much to say about the work. I sometimes feel like writing "this is a nice design" which can be a positive feedback for someone who is working on something. This doesn't necessarily mean I am trying to fat my post-count, which I really don't care about. I just want to encourage everybody to read ALL the posts made from a user if possible. Or at least give them a fast read. Because you can't really judge someone just because of their works, most of the time.

I would most likely make administrators have a look at who voted and, if they are asked, encourage them to give a brief explaination. I believe someone who made a lot of work, effort and hope into their designcontest submission deserves this.

edit: I also appreciated the fact that someone (if I remember well, it was Coy) who explained with detailed informations why he voted No for designbyALX. This is the way I like it to be done. I like a professional behavior into a professional design site.
Also, sevehn pointed out some interesting facts about anonymous voting. But I believe that if someone has a good explaination and the designers who gets no is acting professionally, there will be no pressures etc. At last, it all depends on how we live it.

Regards.

[Coy]

If you notice on all Elite Designer Votings I will post up a link to that persons statistics page so that people can read their posts and vote according to what that person has been doing here at DC.

I personally read everyones post Unless I'm allready familiar with them because they've been so active on the boards and/or in the community contests.

Also as stated earlier anyone can PM me to ask how I voted and why. I have no problem telling them the truth about it.

Also if I'm on the fence, stuck between a yes or no vote I'll post in their thread and ask them a question or two to help me decide which way to go.

and about short contributions to critiques or what have you like nice design and so forth. That's fine but I'll read everything and if they are all like that then it's not really helping them. Why not add to "it's a nice design" and state what in particular is it that you like. i.e. the color combo is great or what ever. But if you don't like it and instead of saying nothing let them know what is wrong with it, cause you can only get better if you know where you fail.

[HWorks]

Of course, I always try to write down some lines to help out who's starting. I always wait for critiques, well, sometimes I'm not 'ready' for them and I need to improve a little myself, to apply them properly. But they are indeed useful. And, as stated before, I sometimes have found it useless to write down too much lines about stuff which did comment itself. Like finished showcases with very professional works which did not really need any suggestion from me. Obviously if someone writes only 'cool stuff' on every topic I'd agree with you and would vote no.
Well let's see how I'll get with my poll, I'm pretty curious.

Regards.

[Geko]

Well, I believe, at my point of view, that votes should remain as they are, there are no pressure or another things involving the vote. The issue about having several accounts, I think administrators are good enough to caught any one trying to cheat at the poll, maybe another filter that should unable to recentlu joined members (posts made at the formums or joining time) could help.
I think that writting the reasons for a no or a yes are up to the voter, always is aprecciated of course, but I guess the no should have some kind of constructive critique.
Interesting post scorpionagency, I agree as you said, "no matter how much ones belief system is different, good communication amongst members is the key to great production".

[sharie]

The issue about forum pad posting.......That is the posts that are "cool" "nice job" and so on. Someone signs up one, makes 10 or so posts then sends in an Elite designer Application. These people think they will really become an Elite Desogner.

I look at the activity and where it is they are active for example someone posting comments on the entries in the community contests..those post don't add into your post total so when i see that it tells that person is trying to be part of the community.

I understand somefolks don't have the gift of gab. The gift of gab is even a bit different when it is done on the computer some find it easier, some find it harder. I take that into consideration when voting.

My opinion..and this is just my opinion..I think it should be required to post on some community contests and even another idea to be required is have at least one community contest entry. Like I said this is just my own idea and it is not a requirement here at DC. I that shows a different kind of commitment for a community based website.

sharie

[Coy]

x2 sharie nicely stated.

A no vote really isn't a critique of ones work but a no to how they've participated with in the community.
So if you receive 8 no's and 1 yes then: you've voted for yourself and everyone else thinks you didn't add anything to this community.
If you recieve 10 yes' and 2 no's then you've made an impression on the DC community.

I also understand that some people feel that because they don't speak native english they'd rather not say as much this is fine as long as you make an effort and state more than a simple "cool" or "needs a little work" or "yes" or "agree" this tells me nothing. but if you try and it's broken english then you fit right in to the txt generation and we can figure out the rest.. LOL Hell I'll even use google translator if I have to read a comment just let me know what language your speaking

[deleted member]

I agree with the need to be active on the forums but I'm not sold on the community contest being a requirement... it takes a lot more time to design something for a contest than it does to give constructive feedback and be a part of the community. And not everyone has that kind of time. But thats just my opinion...

[chrisharis]

This is very much needed one, may be disabling their(me too ) voting ability for first two weeks from the date of registering may be a nice move.

[scorpionagency]

This is very much needed one, may be disabling their(me too ) voting ability for first two weeks from the date of registering may be a nice move.

This is an interesting idea, though I don't think that in the long run of things that 2 weeks would really help. I mean, if someone was to create extra id's just for voting, then they could just as easily wait to apply for Elite until all the ID's are old enough to vote.

@ Everyone else
This did make me think of another idea though. Maybe restricting all voting For Elite, to Elite. Just like you find in Real life clubs, it's normally the actual inner members that vote on accepting or declining prospects. Maybe if the voting module ONLY allowed ELITE designers / Admins / Mods to vote for other members to be or not be elite, it would make a long term difference in the voting process. Besides, i would like to think that already established members know better what it takes or what should be required to become Elite, rather than a newbie that stumbled upon the poll & voted not really understanding what a vote should be based on.

Just another idea, but sounded logical to me.

[Coy]

I understand the thinking behind it and that is what I thought happened at first. But look at it this way.
This is a community not just a "club" for elite designers. So even though we have non-Elite and elite it is still a community and everyone participates within the DC community. So why not let everyone vote for those to be elite if the community thinks that "JOE" who is currently being voted on has contributed to their experiance here in a positive way or not. Before I was accepted as an elite I was fine just being part of a community that truely cares for the Art and commercialism that is Graphic Design and want a place they can connect with one another. If the site was only based upon the "paid" contests then there really would be no need for the forum section. We'd simply just have someone accepting or rejecting applications and not if they've contributed in someway to a forum (community)

[scorpionagency]

What about an additional filter / requirement. I mean, no matter how many times I look at the Elite program, it seems the MAIN motivation factor for everyone wanting to be Elite is to engage clients & participate in the paid contests.

Now, with that being the main motivation factor, would it also not make sense to maybe add the requirement of free community contests participation first so that everyone can see how the member handles them self in a client / designer briefed relationship?

I've also noticed that this community takes some pride in being a teaching facility that reaches out to newer / striving designers trying to help them succeed. Like any institution that provides any help in education, wouldn't it be more productive to teach / monitor how they conduct them self in a few community (test run) contests rather than just assuming everyone can do it & throwing them in head first?

Both the above are good questions in my eye's. To each there own, However I personally like the comfort in knowing a member can follow a project brief, handle feedback well, abide by copyright / trademark laws, & interact with a client professionally. Key points that any community should hold as high standards.

Would it crush DC to not have those standards? Would DC lose any good members if they had to prove them self a little more before being able to be Elite & engage paying clients?

I guess the real question is, what are the downsides about making sure a potential Elite has those key points before becoming Elite that just has everyone NOT wanting it to be a requirement?

I would love to hear others opinions about that possible added requirement.

[sevehn]

uhmmmm ... okay as for me, there are some points that i agree with scorpionagency and some that i dont ...

i agree that an elite should know how to:
- follow a project brief
- handle feedback well
- abide by copyright / trademark laws
- interact with a client professionally

because elites that have the above and executes/relays their ideas in a respectable manner to the paying clients will magnify the quality of designers found in DC ... thus resulting to satisfied clients ... which then hopefully increases the number of possible new clients willing to give projects to DC .. this will give DC an outstanding mark in the design field! xD (yeah rockn'!)

BUT also -- arent these signs noticable during forum and cc interactions? i mean the mods, admin and the founder already requires peeps to interact through forums -- doesnt the requirement to participate on forums already help show if the applicant has the above qualities? -- also, i think, by providing a link of the statistics of the elite applicant (as already done so by mods and admins) does help .... One more thing, b4 becoming an elite -- the mods, admins - require a portfolio -- this is also another gauge to determine the "worthiness" (or something close to that) b4 becoming an elite ... it all sums up in the end ... (forumParticipation, portfolio, accountsRequired etc.)

As for making CC a requirement ... uhmmmmm .... i think ... CC is better off to be optional ... coz ... wont an experienced designers' portfolio + forumParticipation ... present the designers or members skill-set + peopleInteractions? ---

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uhmm .. as for the one that i dont agree ... i dont agree with:

wouldn't it be more productive to teach / monitor how they conduct them self in a few community (test run) contests rather than just assuming everyone can do it & throwing them in head first?

yes, of course it will be very productive with mentor-relationship technique ... but .... also ... i think that each person that decided to join DC and the CC's -- should be responsible enough to help themselves as much as possible ... of course ask questions to fellow peeps here .... BUT i really dont see the necessity to "monitor" ... i mean ... from my point of view ... "monitoring" is waaaaaaay outside the scope of an admin,mod and such ......

of course it is always an option to whoever is kindly willing to voluntarily teach and monitor a noob! xD but it should not be a duty or a "must" to monitor members ...... members should monitor themselves and ask help and the likes if needed xD

ps: omgawd! did i just write a novel ??? noooooooo LOL!

[scorpionagency]

Thats some good input there sevehn, thanks for the response.

Wouldn't you agree though that simply participating in a form & having a portfolio (that anyone can clump images from anywhere together to make) don't really tell you how a designer reacts to direct revision requests & following the the design brief?

You may not have encountered any or maybe just didn't notice, but in my 5 years of freelancing I have come across dozens of portfolio's all with some of the same designs, and all of them claiming to be the original designer of them.

I'm NOT saying that any designers here have done that, just that it has been & always will be done by those whom are a bit more dishonest in order to try to convince an unsuspecting prospect to spend money with them.

I feel that LIVE community contests helps restrain that methodology & puts a designer in a position that they must produce (on spec) what the Client asks for. This will help sort out the dishonest from the honest, and the capable from the incapable. Matter of fact, you can probably compare the work they submit to the contest with their portfolio. If the entry is no where near any of the quality in their portfolio, that should be an instant red flag that something may be wrong.

Nobody is perfect & i don't expect perfection from anyone, however, as a community member i do expect those that want an Elite status so they can work directly with the clients to be able to live up to certain standards of a title such as "Elite".

I may be way off base with thinking that freelance designers wanting to work with clients should be able to prove they can handle spec project tasks prior to being given the privlage. But that's just me. To each their own